Leader of the Northern Civil Rights Coalition and President of Civil Rights Congress (CRC), Mallam Shehu Sani spoke with SAXONE AKHAINE on the problems of insecurity in the country, activities of the militant Islamic group, Boko Haram, the recent botched dialogue between the Federal Government and the Islamic sect, failure by Northern elements in Jonathan's administration to assist government in finding solution to the problem of insecurity and other sundry issues. Excerpts:THE problem of insecurity across the country seems unending, particularly judging from the latest Easter Sunday bombing that claimed several lives and property in Kaduna. What is your assessment of the situation'The peculiar kind of violence that exists in the southern part of Nigeria is ethnic as seen in communal clashes in South-west, the Niger Delta militancy and also cases of kidnapping and violence in the south-eastern part of Nigeria.As far as northern Nigeria is concerned, however, there are two kinds of violence: the Muslim/Christian religious violence and terrorism.But the one currently happening in the north is attributable to a number of factors.There are political factors, religious factors, social, economic and also the global factor.The north has been subjected to series of violence, bombings, assassinations and widespread killing in the last three years, which have been consistently attributed to the Boko Haram group.Before then, in places like Kano, Plateau and Kaduna states, and other flash points in Bauchi,Gombe and Adamawa states , we have hadsectarian violence. So, I think it will be right to say that there are national , domestic, localas well as international factors that have contributed to the pervasive insecurity the nation is facing today.There was the report that you and the President of Sharia'h Council, Dr. Datti Ahmed represented Boko Haram at the dialogue with the Federal Government that was later abandoned. What really happened'Since the Boko Haram insurgency started , there have been several comments and responses from political and religious leaders in northern Nigeria, but there was never a time any serious action had been taken to end the violence.The only times a serious approach was madewere on two occasions ' the peace parley I facilitated between the former president Olusegun Obasanjo and the Boko Haram family members which took place last September and also the recent one in which Dr. Datti Ahmed was given the nod by Boko Haram to represent them in the talks.Those two efforts failed because there weresome elements on the side of the government that felt that the use of force could solve the problem .It could also be that some persons are benefitting from the huge amount of money allocated to fighting this group or there are some people who believe that the continuation of this violence and insecurity is a determinant to their relevance in the nation's political scene.Now, the first attempt in September crashed because one of the hosts, Babafura Fugu was killed.While the Boko Haram was blamed for killing him, I took the initiative to reach out to the group to tell them to make a clear statement about the killing of Babafura Fugu, which they also made clear that they were not responsible. So, for them to say they were not responsible for the killing of Fugu clearly shows that there exists fifth columnists who will always attempt to destroy any effort that would bring about peace.The second effort by Dr. Datti Ahmed crashed because two conditions given by the group that should be observed or should be taken note of were somehow not honoured.The first condition was that the talks should be confidential, until the outcome would be revealed to Nigerians. And that was violated in that almost every discussion that was going on with the government was always, either deliberately or carelessly leaked .The second condition given by the group was the release of their key members who have been in detention.Now, I do not think even if the government would release some members of the Boko Haram, certainly they will not release high profile figures of the group.So, I think with these two unresolved issues, the peace talk could not continue.The sect clearly instructed Dr. Datti Ahmed to withdraw from the talks. But, I am still optimistic that sometime, the talks will still be revived, despite the fact the group has foreclosed any attempt to talk.From my own understanding, there is a clear distrust between the government and the group.In view of your arguments and the latest attack in Kaduna, what effort are you making to facilitate dialogue between the Federal Government and Boko Haram to end this lingering crisis'President Goodluck Jonathan made a very big mistake when he assumed office. He either was misinformed or he took the wrong step. If you can remember, Boko Haram violence didn't start under President Jonathan's Government. It started under former President Umaru Musa Yar'adua. And that is why I do not agree with anyone making the assertion that the Boko Haram insurgency is a calculated attempt by the political elements in northern Nigeria to fight Jonathan because Boko Haram started under the former president and it was Yar'Adua that ordered that the sect should be crushed .It was in response to that that the group started fighting. So, they started their fight long before Jonathan came.When he became president , what he needed to have done was to make wide range consultations and not just with the Sultan and the Emirs and the reactionary conservative elements in the north.He ought to have listened to the complaints of the people. And what are the problems: the killing of Mohammed Yusuf and over a thousand members of Boko Haram which forced the group to go underground, take up arms and started fighting the Nigerian state.Since 2009 when their leader was killed, has anybody from the Federal or state governments reached out to the family of their leader' No, except when I took Obasanjo there.Has there been any attempt to rebuild their mosques, their schools that were demolished' There has not been any such attempt attempt. Has there been any attempt to compensate the families of members of Boko Haram who were killed'. None.So, the approach taken by President Jonathan was simply a military approach: use force to crush the group and that will be the end of the story.And what many Nigerians do not know, because I have read a lot of comments even from scholars and ordinary people about Boko Haram is that nobody has ever addressed the issue of how the group came into existence.I took a lot of time to study the group and I have reached out to the group on several times.Boko Haram group was founded on the philosophy and doctrine of Sheikh Al-Islam Ibn Temiar, a Turkish Islamic cleric that died in prison in 1328.He is from the Hambali School of Islamic thought that has a strict interpretation of Islam from the point of Sunni, from the point of Jihad and from the point of establishing a purist society.In 2009, the mosque of Boko Haram in Maiduguri was demolished, and that mosque was even named after Ibn Temiar.For you to understand from the standpoint of research, you need to read the history and thoughts of Sheikh Al-Islam Ibn Temair.It is then you will know who the Boko Haram are , what motivates them, where are they heading to and what would be the solution to the problem.The solution to some of the problems we face today in the country lies in our history, which we never cared to go back to and check.For someone like President Jonathan, what he should have understood is that an armed Islamic group that takes up arms to fight cannot easily be crushed , based on the use of force because they are not a conventional army that would come out and face the Nigerian state.They are guerrilla soldiers and live among the people. The people know where the guerrillas are, but the people cannot expose the guerrillas because they don't want to expose themselves to danger. To get at one Boko Haram member you would at the end of the day risk the lives of almost 20 innocent people. And how do you fight this kind of war'The way to do it is to reach out to them, sit down with them and to resolve issues.Why did he wait for so long to reach out to Dr. Datti Ahmed, who is the President of Supreme Council for Sharia'h in Nigeria'If someone with such background had been approached a long time ago, we would not be where we are now.The Boko Haram sect members are Nigerians and they are human beings like you and I, but they have taken up arms and they are fighting.In the course of that fight, innocent people are losing their lives.What someone like me can do is not just to criticize or to write against them, but to effectively contribute and take the risk of reaching out to them, telling them: 'Look, you have made enough statements by the people you have killed and by the bombings, now it is the time to sit down and talk.And on many occasions I have been able to send a clear message to them to make them realize that it is not possible for them to achieve an Islamic Nigeria or Sharia'h in the country.If you sit down on the table , you can achieve other things, like the release of your members from detention.You can achieve compensation, you can achieve rebuilding of your schools and mosques, you can also achieve amnesty to practice your own religion.But, all the while, for the first and almost second year of Jonathan's administration, he has been banking on the northerners in his cabinet, Sultan and Emirs to solve the problems forgetting that Boko Haram as a group is an insurgency that started from the grassroots.One thing I knew very well is that these northern elements do not have the capacity to end Boko Haram, because they don't command the respect of the group. But, I know the group very well. If it were a northerner that was in power they would put in more effort, right from the beginning to ensure that this violence does not reach this point.The mistake the northern political leaders made was that they supported the extra judicial killing of Muhammed Yusuf and the massacre of themembers of Boko Haram.It is either many of them are afraid or some of them are simply deceiving themselves and Jonathan.Because if you look at it, why is it that up till today the northern traditional rulers cannot go and meet in Maiduguri'If you consider yourself a leader of a certain part of the country and of certain people, you should be able to go to where the problem is and address it.With all due respect I don't see reason why the Vice President, Namadi Sambo should remain in Abuja.He should spend most of his time in Kaduna, Jos, Kano and Maiduguri mediating on problems.These are the flash points where the violence is coming from.Now, it is incumbent on Jonathan to call all the members of his cabinet, especially those of them from northern Nigeria and tell them: 'This problem comes from your own part of the country, your relevance in my administration is dependent on your ability to resolve these issues.'Are you saying Vice President Namadi Sambo has failed as a leader from the north to resolve the problem facing his region'Today the topmost ranking political office holder from the north is Namadi Sambo.And for him to be of value to this administration actually , he has to put in extra effort to see to it that the violence in the north is reduced to the barest minimum if not brought to an end.And the present approach the government is adopting cannot end the violence of Boko Haram.As you know very well, I am talking to you from my house, and I am talking to you from the northern part of Nigeria. In the north here we have many Islamic sects and many other religious sects. Even within Islam, Boko Haram is new among other sects. Within the Sunni sect, where Boko Haram comes from , we have over 100 other sects. We have the Derika, the Quadriyya sect, the Hamadiyya sect, the Tijjaniyya sect, Shiite sect and others. If tomorrow, Boko Haram threat is over, what are we doing to ensure that none of those other sects do not take up arms against the Nigerian state on any other issue
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