Dr Chukwuemeka Ezeife, former governor of Anambra State spoke with NKECHI ONYEDIKA, in ABUJA, on why the Southeast must produce the next president in 2015. He also explained why previous efforts did not work.WHAT is the position of the Southeast concerning the 2015 presidency' I think that the Igbo are speaking with approximately one voice, on Igbo Nigerian President come 2015. We are not wavering on this but some of our people are afraid that what happened in the past would continue. If you have been out of power for too long, you feel that you are created to be out of power.However, in spite of our fears, as people who have been out of power for so long, we are committed to this cause. As you know, Ndigbo dumped all their eggs in Jonathan's basket, but you also know that a tiny bit of Igbo was opposed to that; it can never be 100 percent. Women, even children and the youths are in total support. The youths are even threatening that if it didn't happen, anything could go (happen).The apex organisation of Ndigbo, Ohanaeze, has already made declarations and many of us are following it, and majority, if not all Igbo want this to happen.You think the North will allow the Southeast to have a shot at the presidency'How united is the north' For how long have they been out of power' After Obasanjo, the North was so disunited but Obasanjo united them by pursuing Third Term; otherwise, they were gone. But Igbo have been out of power for so long and we are still together.Every Nigerian knows that this country owes something to the Igbo. We voted with our feet for Nigeria. We are everywhere in Nigeria, investing real money in the country, living as if we were born there.In 1966, out of all kinds of political conflicts, our people were butchered in Kano; even while rushing home, they were killed on the road. We found ourselves clearly rejected but the one rejected does not reject himself. That was the reason for Biafra. It wasn't our choice; secession was imposed by condition Nigeria created.It was the intervention of Britain, to tell the North where their interest was, that they changed their mind and continued with Nigeria and then came to fight. At the end of the war, they said, 'no victor, no vanquished.' Our people did not spend one week; they rushed to every part of Nigeria, and started afresh as if nothing happened: rebuilding, redeveloping and revitalising every part of Nigeria.Look at Abuja! The centre Abuja, according to a former Minister of the Federal Capital Territory (FCT), is Igbo-built. Igbo contributed more than 90 percent of the manpower used to build the FCT. It was Igbo money and Igbo sweat that brought this Abuja into existence and it is not unusual.The permanence of one Nigeria is in the greatest psychological interest of Ndigbo and we have shown it several times. Zik accepted Herbert Macaulay as leader. Zik, in order to keep Nigeria one, did not accept Independence in 1957 because the British said whoever was ready could become independent. The West, (Obafemi) Awolowo accepted; the North said they were not ready and because of the interest in one Nigeria, the East said, 'okay, Awo, let's be together.'We wouldn't have been talking of one Nigeria if the East had said, 'okay, give us our independence. The West, give us our independence. The North, remain a colony; whenever you are ready, become independent.' So, slaving for one Nigeria has been what the Igbo have been doing.Why didn't Zik accept to be Prime Minister after the election' The Action Group offered Zik a Coalition in which the Action Group would be the governing party, and Zik the Prime Minister of Independent Nigeria. Zik rejected the Prime Ministerial post, and yielded to Tafawa Balewa so that Nigeria could be kept one.We came from the war, continued where we stopped so that Nigeria could be kept one. The northern Nigerian people were the reason for Nigeria because the amalgamation of 1914 was actually forced by circumstances surrounding the economy of the country. The North could not balance their budget; the South had surplus and the two were brought together so that the surplus of the South could be used to balance deficit of the North.Today, the deficit is worse. There is more deficit in education, more deficit in resources, more deficit in everything between the South and the North.One Nigeria is even more important to northerners than to the southeasterners. Today, go to China, India, Britain, America, Cameroun, Germany and any part of the world, you will see Igbo doing business. If Nigeria collapses today, you will have the Southeast people doing business in every part of Nigeria. It is a gift from God. We are enterprising; we work hard and have aggressive pursuit, achievable motivation.Igbo was a sacrificial lamb for the independence and oneness of Nigeria; we have not changed. So, how do we accept being denied a chance to become president in a country we have given so much'Nobody thinking fairly will accept that situation. Igbo are united behind 2015 for presidency. No reasonable person, Igbo or non-Igbo can oppose this except out of selfish consideration.'Igboman Will Take Over From Jonathan'WHAT are the chances of an Igbo occupying the Aso Villa by 2015 considering that the North is pursuing 2015 with passion' Even the incumbent president may run'By 2015, no zone except the Southeast, would not have led Nigeria for more than five years. The Northeast has had their turn; North West has had more than five years while the North Central had almost 20 years. The Southwest had 12 years, the South-South by 2015 more than five years and now remaining the Southeast. Why'Why shouldn't the Southeast serve so that we complete the rotation after which it can be free for all' We can now adopt a system of merit, no more zoning. Whoever can, let him go and campaign and win but why can't we complete the circle'Rotation of leadership has meaning only in the context of six geopolitical zones. I am so sure that at the end of the day, good judgment among the Yoruba and Hausa will prevail because you cannot give expediency, justice, fairness and equity as reason for denying Igbo of their turn. On these grounds, the Southeast should produce the president and it is best for Nigeria.A chunk of politicians from the North and West is suspicious that an Igbo president will so well perform that the Nigerian people will no longer think of any other group producing the president. The Igboman does not want an Igbo president to come and help him; the greatest income the Igboman will get from an Igbo presidency is psyche welfare: 'we are no longer 2nd class citizens; our man has got to the topmost.' And that's all.If it is electricity, water or any other infrastructure, an Igbo president must spread it around because his people are everywhere. There are more gains for Nigerians. We have an egalitarian society. Every Igboman struggles to maintain his family on his own, whether he has to push truck or any other thing in order to achieve that. It is a cultural trait and with an Igbo president, it will be more obvious to other Nigerians and there will be some kind of emulation of independence, enterprise and industry of the Igbo people.The problem with Nigeria is the lack of growth and development. If the economy were all right, insecurity will disappear, Boko Haram will have no locus and the raw material for violence, the Almajeris, will no longer be there.Can an Igboman be president by 2015' I cannot say categorically yes because of one point you made: that Jonathan also is indicating interest in 2015. As for the other one that the North is indicating interest, the North knows better. They are better politicians than we are; they have better political knowledge and they know they cannot get power in 2015. The youth of Nigeria, from Igala to everywhere, went to Enugu and told the North not to think of power in the near future.The former Emir of Gwandu and former ADC to Buhari, (Mustapha) Jokolo, in a recent two-page article, told the North to forget 2015. He did not just blast it; he analysed and said that Jonathan might want 2015 and that if things favoured him, he would continue by 2015. He also said that after Jonathan, there was no way to stop the Southeast from occupying the presidency. There is no way to stop Igbo after Jonathan.I believe the analysis of Jokolo should be the analysis of any intelligent person and the North has surplus of people who are politically intelligent. Let them not make a noise to distract anybody. The North cannot get the presidency in 2015. I am sure they know they have vested interests in Nigeria being one. If you deny the Southeast presidency in 2015, I don't know how their youths and old men, including me, will feel about one Nigeria.As for Jonathan, we knew why we voted so massively for him. We did not vote for him to deny him any right. We will continue to support Jonathan. If he wants to go for 2015, we will support him but he should understand that we would also be working for 2015. We will work as if it is already too late for 2015; we will be preparing Igbo takeover in 2015 even while supporting Jonathan to continue.'Our People Will Not Be SettledThis Time'AREN'T you double-speaking in that wise'I am not double-speaking. What I am trying to say is that we will take over from Jonathan once he finishes. When the critical time comes, we will sit with him and assess the situation. If Jonathan can win, we will allow him to go but if, after a thorough analysis, he sees and everybody sees that winning chances are not available to him, we then ask him to forget his ambition for 2015 and support us to win and keep the flag flying.When you said the Igbo would support Jonathan if they found out he could win the 2015 presidency, are you not sacrificing the slot of the Southeast'No, no! We are not sacrificing our slot; we are working in cooperation and not in competition with Jonathan. It doesn't pay any group to play a game of conflict or competition with a power holder. We don't want him to see us as enemy forces.He will see us working hard for Igbo presidency; he will see us go to the South-South to solicit support; he will see us go to Southwest, the Middle Belt (North Central), Northeast and Northwest.While he is campaigning for his own, we are going to be explaining why it will be us. At the end of it, it will be either Jonathan or Igbo but the Igbo will take over from Jonathan; this is my position.The Constitution provides for two terms for a president. Some people are talking about swearing in two or three times; I don't know about that. If there is a constitutional constraint, it won't be anybody's fault, but ordinarily, a person who is elected president has the right to go for a second term of four years.He (Jonathan) was sworn in to complete a term; I think he has the right to go for eight years. I am saying that subject to constitutional provision, he can go for a second term if chances show he can win. But otherwise, we will persuade him to let us go and we will be ready to take over.'We'll Back Only One Or Two Aspirants'WHAT preparations have you made for the flag-off of corporate campaign for Igbo presidency'We have already had the first meeting of the steering committee for this corporate campaign for Igbo Nigerian president. We don't want anybody to be shouting that he wants to be president. We want, as Igbo, to campaign for one or two years without involvement of any individual: pushing it with our might, persuasions, or politics; getting the agreement or disagreements; trying to override the disagreement of people.Let's convince the rest of Nigerians that we do have very good men. Among those who will show interest, we will assess them at home and after the assessment, we will tell some people not to continue in the interest of Igbo and tell some others to go ahead.The corporate campaign is the only thing I see as justified instead of one person getting up, and the other person pulling him down. We will do it as Igbo. When it comes to the face of the person that will run for president, we will unmask him after processing all the people fairly and justifiably so that everybody sees that you were fair to all.We will drop anybody who has something to hide, which, if exposed, will be a justifiable reason for us to lose the position. Anybody we drop will know why he is dropped; we don't want to take chances.How serious is the Southeast about the project or is it a way of making noise in order to be 'settled''Well, that is a good devil's advocate question. No, it is not easy to go against a strong current of opinion. In the past, you could come out, make a noise, get settled and you go back. Anybody who tries to sell out an Igbo presidency affair will sell himself out. He may be sent to a long journey where he may not come back until the election is held!There is a determination, especially among our youths, that they will not accept betrayal, they will not accept double-dealing because of money and that anybody who works against Igbo interest on the presidency will have himself to blame. And they don't believe they will go to hell if they do anything to such a person because this is a corporate conviction of the Igbo!What are the critical issues that you perceive might support or frustrate the realisation of Igbo presidency'In the past, I used to say that only the Igbo could stop an Igbo presidency by 2015 or after Jonathan. Why I said so is because self-doubt is killing. Producing a president is a positive thing to Ndigbo and if they have self-doubt, they can't get it.The first thing to do is to convince ourselves that this is due to us, this is our right and go for it. I don't have money but in all the meetings I have held with people, this issue is hot on their minds and they are already queuing up, wanting to sponsor the meetings. So from now, the kinds of people we call for meetings are those who already have what they want and cannot be bought over.Military Scuttled Past Igbo Presidential AspirationsTHE clamour for Igbo president has been on for many years. What were the factors that militated against that aspiration'They were not too many factors. Let me remind you that after the election of Shehu Shagari, (Alex) Ekwueme was ordained successor. Umaru Dikko, in London, said it was Igbophobia on the part of some military people and some dealers that caused the coup against Shagari so that he didn't stay there, complete his term and hand over to somebody from the Southeast.They (military) did not allow him (Shagari) to stay more than four months. They were thinking it would not be leaked. However, an insider, Dikko said it clearly: that those who have phobia of the Igbo scuttled it.I am a founding member of the G-34; we formed the PDP. Don't mind that I am not a member of the PDP now. In the PDP, the presidency was zoned to the Igbo and, indeed, everybody agreed that Ekwueme would be the candidate. Ekwueme now said, 'let's leave it open; other people may come and contest.' This was out of Igbo's fairness.When (Gen. Ibrahim) Babangida was leaving office, he said he was stepping aside. He saw an opportunity to step back. How'I was preparing for president. My wife, one morning, told me that this thing might not work; that she saw Abdulsalami Abubakar putting up a photograph of Obasanjo and putting a garland on that photograph. She told me that it appeared the military was going to foist Obasanjo on the people.Do you know what' That time, Obasanjo was still in prison, but then, there was a deal. They asked Obasanjo to come and become president and that he would serve for four years and help Babangida to take over.Everybody was talking of Ekwueme presidency until three weeks to the Jos convention when, after Aliyu negotiated this deal between Babangida and Obasanjo, the military in government preferred Obasanjo (to Ekwueme) and they went to Jos to conclude it and Obasanjo won the convention.How would you react to the claim that some Igbo sabotaged the Igbo project'It was not due to any fault of an Igboman. Yes, Jim Nwobodo was also talking about being vice president but it wasn't his fault; the Igbo did not sabotage it; Ndigbo were united more than the Hausa and Yoruba.We don't have the control of the national cake but our people brought out their money. How many times have we had elections: the time of Shagari, Abiola, Obasanjo, Yar'Adua and then Jonathan'After the election of Shehu Shagari, it was supposed to be Ekwueme, and it was botched but not by Igbo. Then it was Ekwueme again in 1999 but the military made a deal for them to come back as a civilian president through IBB and supported Obasanjo. There had not been concerted efforts for Igbo presidency than now.But why is it that whenever there is a position for the Southeast, every Tom, Dick and Harry will come out. Why are they never united on any issue'The Yoruba will say, 'iro' ' it is not true. How many people came out to vie for chairmanship of the PDP from the Northeast' They were 15 or more. How many people vied for the position of the Secretary of the PDP from the Southwest' Not fewer than 12. So, let's not keep talking about this! It is not true; it just throws Igbo in bad light.Even that one (many people aspiring for one position) ' we are killing it because this corporate campaign idea is knocking the bottom out of every Tom, Dick and Harry rushing out to campaign for president. So, it is not true.In any case, if a position is zoned to the Igbo and one million Igbo comes out, one person will take it. If the chairmanship is zoned to the Igbo, because we have so many qualified people; we are not lacking in human beings who have the guts and the brains, why should anybody cow them down'How do you rate people' Is it money' You can get more than 200 Igbo who are suitable for president because they are educated, they are trained, they are motivated and God has given them that spirit of saying, 'I can; let me try.'Forces Against Igbo PositionsWHY is it that there had been no PDP Chairman or Senate President from the Southeast, who served out his tenure'There will always be one issue or the other and people from the Southeast would be used to remove such a person. Now, the person must diagnose what is wrong with him. Most of these things result from manipulations, and not from forces inside the Igbo but outside Igbo.I was once an insider in the Ohanaeze.For instance, on Senate President, 52 senators-elect endorsed Okadigbo for president. Then, when it was time to appoint, they said Atiku (Abubakar) was supporting this person; this person was supporting the other person but the people whose responsibility it was to elect the Senate president had chosen Okadigbo.If we were doing democracy and people's rights are respected, there would be no other way than to elect Okadigbo and it would be the people's choice. Obasanjo imposed (Evan) Enwerem. What was his (Obasanjo's) greatest reason for doing that'Enwerem was in a seat in a plane and saw him and surrendered his seat to him. So, he's a person he (Obasanjo) could use. Okadigbo's an original Igboman; he frightened Obasanjo. Later, the people's choice replaced Enwerem but that people's choice had never been Obasanjo's choice.Obasanjo fought until' don't forget, if you have money, power and you are sharing it, after sometime, some people will do your bidding. So, they threw out Okadigbo. Obasanjo shopped for a successor, and since it had to be from the Southeast.Again, because some people had sworn to show us in bad light and because the person, who was the president, was so anti-Igbo ' and because he wanted to show us in bad light ' he maneuvered, and brought (Adolphus) Wabara out. But the Senate decided to go by their choice and brought out Anyim Pius Anyim.We came to the next generation. I was not in the PDP, but Anyim came to ask me to follow him to go and collect the form for the PDP chairmanship. I followed him to the Wadata House, (Abuja) and I sat at the table while he was collecting his form.Obasanjo didn't like Anyim because of the quarrel they had. He preferred the former governor of Ebonyi State, Sam Egwu. However, the governors said, 'we are 36; let's choose by ourselves.' (Vincent) Ogbulafor had not campaigned for the position but the governors picked him as the person to do their bidding and put him there.Because forces outside Igbo put him there, Ogbulafor was not representing the Igbo and he was not also performing in terms of balancing things and being his own man. He didn't have a strong Igbo support and, of course, when the game started, it was very easy to make all kinds of accusations against him, and he had to go.Then, the tough man, Okwy (Okwesilieze) Nwodo came. If Jonathan says he doesn't know that Okwy Nwodo played a very vital role in his emergence as candidate, he knows (not telling the truth position). Nwodo was determined, clear-headed, and articulate and a good man; a good Igboman, too.This is the area I would say that you are right because Nwodo was not brought down by outside forces. Nwodo, as chairman of the PDP, thought he should have some control in his own constituency. Somehow, the 'Coal Camp' mentality, Enugu mentality and the Lagos Island mentality are the same. They never accept, they never yield; they don't accept compromise; they fight to finish; let the other person drop dead and then you win.That was how Governor Chime and Okwy Nwodo started conflict and nobody knew the design of the other. So, they went to court without anybody knowing what was going on and the court gave an injunction and the Judge, who issued the injunction, went into hiding, as agreed.Everybody, including the president (Jonathan), tried to reach him but to no avail. Somehow, the Judge's brother told Nwodo that his brother had agreed to give an injunction and that it's being sent to him. He believed him and went to the venue of the convention but when asked whether there was any documentation, he (Nwodo) said no.That wasn't the worst part of the issue. When the presidential election was coming, and the PDP had no chairman, I went to Senator (Ike) Ekweremadu and he allowed me ' not being PDP but having interest of the Igbo ' to screen people for chairmanship of the PDP.Ten people submitted themselves to be screened. After screening them, The South-South supported the Southeast in presenting them to the president. We ambushed the president in Uyo and gave him the result of the screening. The president called a meeting of the Board of Trustees. The Igbo people who were members did not turn up.I don't know what happened. I am not blaming anybody and this is the only case where the Igbo worked against themselves. In other cases, it's outside manoeuvres but in the Nwodo case, it wasn't outside manoeuvres, but home-based manoeuvre: Enugu killed Enugu.With all these, what are the chances of an Igbo president emerging from the PDP or any other party'That is a difficult question, but people do difficult things. The Almighty God in heaven will hear our cry and provide a solution. As for now, it is hazy. I have been talking emphatically about other things you asked me, but this one I can't.Are you interested in running for presidency'I contested for presidency two times and on both occasions, I did not pass the starting line. The field was far out there. I failed at the starting point for many reasons I won't go into.Now, I am 73 plus. I may be agile, I may still be alert, but clearly, I will support anybody below 70 to contest for president and if I cannot support anybody at that age bracket, I cannot offer myself. I am out of it!
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