More than 13 years of unbroken democratic rule, a functional and acceptable constitution, central to the resolution of several challenges facing Nigeria today, still appears to be very elusive. It is the realisation of this and the need to redress it that made successive administrations in the country embark on either a review or an amendment of the Constitution from time to time. Despite these efforts, rather than getting it right, the country has continued to slide deeper and deeper into arguable confusion, with its people losing hope. Chief Afe Babalola (SAN), a renowned constitutional lawyer and an elder statesman, in this interview with ABIODUN FANORO, concludes that the planned review of the Constitution by the National Assembly would suffer the same fate as the earlier ones except it is a new Constitution that flows from the gathering of the people of Nigeria, through a Sovereign Constitutional Conference, is enthroned. Excerpts:THE Federal Government, through National Assembly, is again in the process of amending the Nigeria's Constitution. How best should this exercise be carried out to avoid the failure of many previous exercises in the past'When I read about the planned National Assembly exercise to amend the defective and the un-representative 1999 Constitution, which in all its wordings, lied against itself and the people of Nigeria, after a deep reflection, I asked myself: 'for how long shall we continue to deceive ourselves' How long shall we continue to be forced to grope in the dark despite the fact that this country is the melting point of all classes of intellectuals and for how long shall a tiny group of self-serving individuals hold the vast majority of the people hostage and keep lording over them with their whims and caprices''What I am saying is that as it was in the past, this exercise would not take us to the desired point, it would only prolong the suffering of the people and further endanger the future of the country. I have said it before and I will say it again. The Constitution, which would enable a country to attain its objective of making life comfortable for the people, must be the Constitution of the people' It is the Constitution, which is arrived at, at a conference of the people, usually called the Sovereign National Conference (SNC). The 1999 Constitution is not a Constitution of the people, and I challenge you, whether you knew when it was made. I was not part of it, nobody was party to it. It was single-handedly drawn up by the military and it was called the Constitution of the people of Nigeria. The military is just a minute fraction of the people of Nigeria. It had no right to make a Constitution for the people of Nigeria, and the Constitution is very faulty. The Constitution is a copy of the United States' Constitution. It is not applicable to this country. The American Constitution was as a result of their success in the 1776 American War of Independence against the British. The 13 American colonies consciously came together for a common purpose and they fought the British for independence. They knew what they were doing, they knew what was at stake and together, they fashioned out a common way to achieve it. Nigeria never fought a war (of independence). The several hundreds of nationalities existed independently of one another. They never had or nursed a common goal. Each of them was okay with the way it was running its affairs and living its life. Nationalities or tribes with different religions and different ideas of life, somebody just woke up from a long sleep and from his sleep-walk to put them together, gave a Constitution and forced them to live together. You don't make a people that way. A people would not become united merely by proclamation, something must bind them together. Take South Africa for example, they are together because they suffered together and they fought a war.But, it is not every country that emerged as a result of war, yet its people live together'Yes of course, it is not every country that emerged through war. In Canada for instance, there was no such war. So they appreciated the fact that they had come together with differences. If you look at Quebec, or the state of Novascritia, they are all French settlers. If you come to the West in Vancouver, they are mostly Chinese and Japanese. The centre is also made up of different communities. They all knew their differences, so they formed a constitution where each is able to manage its affairs and develop at its own pace. But at the centre is the Canadian government taking care of Foreign Affairs with a few matters. What Nigeria needed was what our fore-fathers agreed to in 1960, after a long deliberation for over a period of over 11 years, from 1950 to 1960, in Lancaster House in London. They realised the difference between the tribes and they allowed the West to develop at its own pace, differed from the East and the North. As a matter of fact, if you could remember, the North as at that time said it was not ready for independence because it knew that the South was more advanced than the North. Why was this obvious and significant difference not allowed to determine the future of these two communities'However, in the wisdom of our fathers, they said that the North should be given time to catch up with the South. Of course, I disagree with that. You don't give time to somebody who it took 10 years to develop to catch up with someone that it took one year to develop.For instance, the first lawyer in Yoruba qualified over 150 years, whereas there were some states which their first lawyer qualified less than 50 years ago, also for engineering, medicine, among others. The difference is crystal clear. There are those who want to move fast, there are those who don't want to be rushed.In your view, the problem facing the country today is our failure to stick to true regionalism (federalism) which Nigerian founding fathers agreed to in Lancaster House, Britain'The problem is that those in position of leadership today believe that Nigeria's founding fathers were stupid, that they are wiser than they were and that they are more Nigerians than they were.As I said, the 1999 Constitution was imposed on us by the military. Now that they are gone, the right thing for us to do as a right-thinking people is not to begin to amend or doctor this unacceptable document, but to begin a process of fashioning out a new one by calling for a gathering of the people. This Constitution that would emerge from the conference of the people would be the one that would allow us to continue to live together but would allow the component parts to develop at their different rates.Is everything that bad with a presidential constitution for our own situation that it cannot be domesticated to meet our peculiar situation'It was not applicable to our own situation right from the beginning. It is not applicable now because one: that type of constitution is not suitable for our state of development. Two: It is not suitable to a country where the vision, the philosophy, the religion and tradition are totally different.Nigeria's presidential system of government is believed to be more expensive than what obtains in the United States of America. What is your opinion'Yes, it is very true. This again, is as a result of the constitution we operate, which allows a greater percentage of our resources to be controlled by the central government, while the states and local council, will every month, go cap in hand, to beg for allocation. The state and the local councils can hardly pay salaries of their workers. As a result of this, after payment of salaries, states and local councils have little or no money left to develop their areas, create and promote employment and other socio-welfare facilities that can keep people and youths in their areas to be self-employed.The only sources of employment now remain government and political office-holders. Today, you see one political office-holder having as many as 10 to 20 aides, all of them drawing their salaries from government purse without being productive or adding any value to governance.In the United States, this is not so because of its high level of development, where you cannot take anybody for a ride and because strict federalism is practised there. It is because there is no development at the states and local council, no new industries, the existing ones have collapsed and become moribund. That is why you have unemployment all over the place. Until a truly peoples' constitution, which would enable each component part of Nigeria to develop at its own pace, a pace that is suitable to its peculiar people and peculiar needs, we are sitting on a keg of gun powder.One other contentious area is the responsibility sharing list, where the Federal Government legislates and controls virtually everything. Isn't there a need to review this'This is certainly an abnormality in a supposed Federal Constitution. In the former Constitution, all these items, which the Federal Government has today appropriated to itself under the Exclusive List, were functions of states and local councils on which they legislated. What has the Federal Government to do with, for instance, agriculture in Ado-Ekiti, Calabar or Sokoto' We need to go back and readjust those things through a constitutional conference, take away most of those items under the Exclusive List and return them to the component states. All our money goes to the maintenance of the Civil Service and the political structures in the country. That is why in Nigeria, nobody wants to do anything (for a living) than to seek the 'kingdom of god,' and the kingdom of god is Abuja and the constitution, which allows those who serve in different capacities in government to get rich over-night.Having realised the imperativeness and the dangers ahead, if we fail to act, what are legal icons and elder statesmen like you doing to draw government's attention'I have written to all the presidents of the country so far, that the earlier we have a constitutional conference to address all these problems, the better. I did not write only to former Presidents Olusegun Obasanjo and Umaru Yar'Adua, his successor, I must have written four letters to incumbent President Goodluck Jonathan on this issue, requesting him to please, initiate necessary processes to convene a national conference for the purpose of avoiding dangers that are looming ahead.What has been the reaction of President Jonathan'I haven't got any reply from any of them, not President Jonathan alone. I am not the only Nigerian proposing this conference. All Nigerians from all callings, including Osun State Governor Rauf Aregbesola, have been making this call.In the light of this and in further view of the current state of the country, do you share the fear that there is palpable threat to the future of the country'The way things are going, only God and you and I can save the country, by persuading those who are in positions of authority to quickly intervene by convening this Sovereign National Conference to settle the issues. We can still live together. That is the only way out of these problems.Now, let us shift our attention to the judiciary, which made you, but today its walls are collapsing, what is the way out'This can only be truly achieved, again, through a Sovereign National Conference. The new constitution will have to establish a new structure for the Judiciary, the Legislature and the Executive. It will define a new and unambiguous pattern of operation and relationship that cannot be impeded by any form of action of the three parties.In essence, there has to be a truly separated power and independence in all languages and in practice. If you ask me, I will tell you that we run one of the most expensive Legislature in the world. We don't need such an expensive Legislature. I have been a councilor before, but this was on part-time basis.Are you calling for a parliamentarian system of government'Whether it is going to be presidential, parliamentary or anything whatsoever, it is the people who should decide. Whatever form of government we want must be the one that will be able to function in such a way that the security of lives and property will be guaranteed. It must be the one that will allow the states to control the resources in their domain and use it for the development of their areas in such a way their opportunities for employment will be guaranteed.How can the judiciary be protected from corruptive influences'Again, this is a function of the constitution. A constitution that places the appointment of judges in the hands of the president or a governor is certainly not helpful to a free administration of justice.
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