Senior Advocate of Nigeria (SAN) and a frontline legal practitioner in the country, Alhaji Yusuf Alli, speaks with Biola Azeez on some national issues. Excerpts:PEOPLE accused of corruption in the country usually run to the courts to seek injunctions to protect themselves. How do you see this'First and foremost, we must appreciate that under our law and our constitution, anybody accused of committing any crime is presumed to be innocent. You must also appreciate the fact that all the organs created by the constitution have specific roles under the constitution. The judiciary has its own role, likewise the executive and the legislature with their own roles. The constitution guarantees every citizen the right of access to the court, when you feel that your right has been infringed, or about to be infringed or threatened or about to be threatened. And that is the hallmark of the operation and beauty of rule of law. The interplay of the various organs is what brings out the best in the society. Mob justice is no justice. 'Oh, somebody stole money or he kills somebody, let's go after him'. From my experience in this country, so many innocent souls were lost when lynching was in-thing for people who were caught stealing or robbing. Scores were settled with people because all it takes is just for some people to shout 'ole, thief, barawo, onyeochi', and the person will be dead. People will not ask questions. No civilised society will progress that way. Now, to your question, as a person and as a lawyer, I have never agreed that the court should be used to stop constitutionally created institutions from performing their duties. What am I saying' For example, I won't support a situation where there is a proposal for the House of Assembly and you go to court to say don't do it. It is when they do it. It is when they do it and they go outside the purview of their powers that you can go to court. If somebody is accused of committing a crime, rightly or wrongly, my view is that the police should be allowed to do their work. If, in the process of doing their work, they exceed their boundaries, you can go to court, not to stop them from doing anything at all. So, those who go to court believe that they have the right to do so. But, don't forget that the court is the ultimate in deciding if it is a proper case or not. All I will just say is that our courts should be up and doing and alive to the nuances and antecedents of Nigerians. If somebody brings a frivolous matter, the matter should be treated as such. But to make a blanket statement that, because corruption is rife, nobody should go to court, is to condemn people without being heard.And that's one of the advocacies I had against the EFCC when Nuhu Ribadu was the chairman. How do you assess the performance of anti-corruption agencies. Are we getting the fight against corruption right'Nigeria is an interesting country. We must address the things that promote corruption. The anti-corruption agencies are just to be there, in a normal setting, to address few issues. I am sure the anti-corruption agencies are now overwhelmed because of the level and gravity of the pervasive nature of corruption. And you must situate those institutions within the environment in which they operate. I keep on saying that the fight against corruption is not for the government or anti-corruption agencies alone. It's for all of us, if we are serious. It's for you and I.You as journalist, I as lawyer. How do we even live our private lives' Is it devoid of corruption' I keep on saying it; I don't agree with the general thesis that if those in government are clean, everyone else will be clean. Those in government are in the minority; the majority of the people must make up their minds and decide the society they want to live in. In foreign or developed nations, it is ordinary people that decide that leaders must uphold some moral codes. It is easier to track corruption in those places because in Europe or America, nobody cares about the extended family. Putting it in context, in those places, by the time your child is 18 or 21, he is out of the house. You don't care about the mother, father or in-laws. Nigeria is the only place where people make all sorts of allegations but will come short in supplying details on how to address them. 'So-so-so is corrupt or a thief and all that. But where are the facts and figures' There is what I call group cowardice because we don't give vent to what we believe in. We just like name-calling. We must grow above that and assist the anti-corruption agencies with information. The call for state police, do we need that' I don't think that we need state police or that we are ripe for it because most of us that are old enough in the First Republic know how it was used. In the North then, there was native authority police, in the South we had local government police and they were merged with the Nigeria police in 1968 when General Yakubu Gowon was Head of State. Before then, we know the uses they were put into by politicians. And unfortunately, the politicians of today are worse than the politicians of that time.What I think we need to do is to properly position the present police, especially in terms of moral armament. They must let it be known that corruption in that area will not be tolerated. They are supposed to be the keepers of our security and I am sure you would have been wondering over two main things that happened recently from the acting IGP of police, particularly the scraping of road blocks. Immediately he did that, the volume of highway robbery reduced tremendously. Accidental shooting has actually gone. When there were police chekpoints, the killing of innocent people was a daily occurrence. People were dying in their tens. For achieving those two things he should be commended. Anyone calling for restoration of road blocks is a beneficiaries of the past. These men could be better trained and deployed for normal security work. Rather than go for state police, we should do more of community policing where people in their own areas would volunteer, be registered and you keep proper record about them. That's what happens in other places. In London, you see some people in uniform trekking and moving around. They are no proper policemen. It is community policing. They are given uniform and they are credible people who do not abuse the privilege. And you can start with professional bodies in this country, from some credible members of NBA, NUJ, Nigerian society of Engineers, surveyors, and we will see changes. It would be a transformation of the vigilante.Can we still hope for the best out of the fuel subsidy report with Lawangate or Otedolagate'I believe nothing should happen to distract the implementation of the fuel subsidy report of the House of Reps. The Otedolagate or Faruk Lawan gate is just one incident out of so many issues. We should not make the mistake we made when former President Olusegun Obasanjo (OBJ) was to leave, of not allowing the amendment of the constitution because of what now became third term. There were so many other provisions. Third term was just one item out of a hundred. So, the Otedola case is just one out of several other findings of the committee. I don't think this has affected the totality of the integrity of the report. So, we should not put the report under the carpet. I'm sure we will be learning some lessons from there. So, I believe the nitty-gritty of the report should be looked into and implemented.Some people say government made political office attractive because of wages of political office holders.I believe the scramble for political position is not about the wages. It is about illegal acquisition of funds.I think it is unrestrained access to public fund by illegal means that is the attraction. Nigerians still believe that the shortest way to wealth is through public office or government. Until that orientations changes.How do we change it'God bless you. I've said it, when you are proven guilty of corruption charges, the person should just be killed, executed. I've been preaching this for more than a decade. I call it the Chinese treatment because, in China, if you are convicted of corruption, you are either hanged or shot. I believe this is necessary. People challenge me; they say, 'Oh in other places they are scrapping death sentences'. Yes, those are other places. Corruption has contributed at least 80 per cent to problems we have in this country.If we can reduce corruption by 50 per cent, you will be surprised at the level of efficiency we are going to attain. At least we would have achieved one thing, the person who committed the crime would not be the beneficiary of the gain. He won't live to enjoy the fruit of his crime. Also, Nigerians will not be committing crimes for others to enjoy. Once they know and see examples, they won't be committing the crime.
Click here to read full news..
